Oxford University Cave Club

EGM Michaelmas 2000 

Wednesday 5th October 2000

Minutes, etc.

"OUCC this term"

OUCC Home Page

Present were: Chris Densham (chair), Hilary Greaves (sec), John Pybus, Alison Waterfall, Lynn Mulelly, Steve Roberts, Rich Doyle, Simon Goddard, Pip Crosby, Paul Mann

Apologies were received from: James Hooper, Tony Seddon

Those who were absent but didn't apologise were too numerous to mention.


  1. Social sec by-election
  2. Meets sec job-adjustment motion - Hilary
  3. Treasurer by-election
  4. Expedition leader 2001 election
  5. Shall we junk the club van? - Chris
  6. Should we charge leaders for leading novice trips? - Hilary
  7. AOB


1) Social sec by-election Jemma has had to unexpectedly resign her post as Social Sec, as she won't be in Oxford this year. Chris suggested that if Hilary's idea for reducing the meets sec's workload was taken up (see 2 below), Meets Sec and Social Sec could become one job (as in the past, apparently). Hilary told Chris to  <absent himself> because Social Sec and Meets Sec are both fairly sizeable jobs, downsized or otherwise. Chris agreed to comply with this request. Simon and Alison were nominated/volunteered for the post of Social Sec. Chirs enquired "Who wants Alison?" Everyone admitted that they wanted Alison. (It was noted that Simon already does one committee job.)

2) Meets sec job-adjustment motion - Hilary Hilary proposed altering the meets sec's job description as follows. Rationale: There is no reason why all of the last minute legwork to get a meet sorted out (getting food etc, see below) needs to be done by the meets sec; in fact, it makes sense if it's at least someone going on the weekend that does this stuff (and for food, someone with a car). The meets sec is lazy, and wants to cut down its job (see also Treasurer by-election, below below). The Proposal: The meets sec will do the "behind the scenes" stuff: arrange trip dates, termcard info, accommodation bookings, permit bookings, advance minibus bookings. The meets sec will then delegate the last-minute legwork to one "meet co-ordinator" for each individual weekend and liaise with this co-ordinator to ensure a clusterfuckless weekend. The co-ordinator's jobs will be: keep track of who's coming on the meet, advertise meet in DTT and vocally on Wednesdays, arrange transport from Oxford, buy food, be responsible for the weekend as a whole (returning keys, taking permits to the meet, leaving accommodation clean, making sure any newcomers have gear and trips, making a record of who's there for the treasurer, etc etc).

The club accepted this proposal. Steve noted that the "meet co-ordinator" role fits in very well with OUSF's new requirement for there to be a named "responsible person" on each weekend, who would be the contact in case of emergency-like occurrences. Steve also commented that for this reason, we shouldn't give the job to newcomers who wouldn't be aware of things like how to call the rescue, get NOK details, etc - it should be a relatively experienced club member. Hilary has written a "meets co-ordinator's crib sheet" which details what the co-ordinator eneds to do when.

3) Treasurer by-election Paul has stepped down as treasurer, as he is no longer living in Oxford. Hilary nominated herself. No-one else wanted to go near the job with a bargepole, so Hilary was elected unanimously and ever so enthusiastically.

4) Expedition leader 2001 Doyle was nominated and elected. The expedition will be to the Picos, probably to Xitu. Doyle announced his committee: Doyle will do the accounts, Seedy gear, Lynn stamp the maillons, Gavin secretary. Gavin will do lots of leader-like things in Trinity term, as Rich will be writing up his 4th year project.

5) Shall we sell the club van? After much discussion we decided that we would keep the van if expedition 2001 will commit to hiring it now, sell it otherwise. Doyle will investigate expedition transport possibilities over the next few days (including personal cars, Gordon Foundation landrovers, shipping gear (Chris will investigate shipping)), and get his answer to Chris (van man). One possibility is to take the van on expedition next year, and stash lots of gear in Spain, so that thereafter only cars (containing people plus much smaller amount of gear) would be needed. We estimated that the cost of keeping the van for another year, rather than selling it now, is around £1350: £700 for a year's insurance, £165 for tax, and about £500 because we could probably get that much for it now (it's just been MOT'd), and we'd probably get (next to/) nothing for it after we trashed it on expedition and it became an MOT write-off. Club weekends can hire Hotson's vans for £92 (2 days) or £138 (3 days). We also note that the club van is more petrol thirsty than hire vans. Chris can get hold of an overdrive for about £80, which would alleviate this a bit. On related notes, Lynn reported that the climbing club gets a weekend-meet transport subsidy from the AC Irvine fund. She thinks we would be unlikely to get the same - and would be cheeky to ask - as the climbers don't have a summer expedition. Pip suggested devising ways to get at the college-allocated sports money, possibly by setting up "college caving clubs". Chris also noted that there is probably lots of money sitting in funds in various places, and we should put more effort into getting our grubby paws on it.

6) Should we charge leaders for leading novice trips? This question relates to "novice season" i.e. the first 2 caving weekends of the academic year. Hilary proposed that the answer to this question was "No". She suggested that people offer to lead novice trips out of general concern for the freshers' enjoyment and for the future health of the club - voluntary work for the club, if you like. As such, it is a fairly ridiculous test of people's resolve to put back into the club, if they have to pay for the privilege, as well as generously giving up their time. Therefore, the cost of a freshers' trip (at least the transport) should be split between the people for whose benefit the trip is run, i.e. the freshers. (I'm only suggesting this applies to the designated mass "novice trips" at the start of Michaelmas, where the only caving done is large groups of total novices - not suggesting any subsidy for people who take the odd fresher caving on normal club weekends throughout the year.) No-one agreed (boo hoo). John noted that if leaders were not charged, the money they have previously paid would have to come from somewhere - higher charges to freshers, higher charges for non-novice trips, or somewhere. Several people said that the club doesn't tend to have a problem getting enough trip leaders, and several more people said that they considered leading a novice trip as "going caving" for their own benefit, and were therefore happy to pay for it as normal. We decided that leaders would be charged for their first day trip or first half-weekend, and would get any subsequent novice trips they led free.

7) Any other business

7a) Lynn reported that the mountaineering club have suggested a joint OUMC/OUCC party: Thursday 2nd week (19th Oct), Horse and Jockey, Woodstock Road. We can hire a room for £40, which is returnable if we get more than 50 people in the pub. The idea is that this would be a good social event for freshers, after they've been to introductory talks/meets, to try and get them to like the club and hence consider possibly perhaps staying (novel idea huh). We agreed to join in.

7b) Lynn also reported that OUMC have suggested a joint meet - one day caving, one day climbing. We agreed this was a good idea. The Peak District was suggested as a possibility, with P8 as a possible caving trip. Hilary will talk to the OUMC meets sec about it.

7c) Hilary advertised this term's meets as follows.

Come caving or we'll shoot you, or something equally scary.

Meeting closed